And Now We Present A Less Inflammatory View

Cross-posted from WhereIStand. This is the most ironic title of a piece on my blog ever, but it is truly less inflammatory than what it responded to.

Listening to Nick rant and rave based on that ever reliable, reasoned source of "news" The American Prospect you’d think Reverend Becky Fischer was running a madras school. However, Indie Wire brings us a more balanced perspective:

"I’ve only seen [the film] one time, and I was still processing what was left out and left in. [But from] what I’ve seen, I think [Grady and Ewing] did a great job," said Fischer. "I think they captured the beautiful concepts of what we represent."

While generally pleased with how the film turned out, she told Indie Wire that she initially felt a bit uncomfortable with the inclusion of some of the overtly political segments in the film, which culminate in a debate between Fischer and Air America radio commentator Mike Papantonio (whose on-air comments are used to frame the documentary). Papantonio, described as an active Methodist, is a frequent critic of the Evangelical movement.

A particularly inflammatory scene that heightens the political overtones for viewers takes place at a revival meeting lead by Fischer and her associates, in front of well over 100 children. In the scene, Fischer takes a life-size standup photo of President George W. Bush to the stage, and with a large American flag in the background, asks the crowd to raise their hands towards him in prayer.

"I didn’t realize how the secular world viewed what we were doing," Fischer said, adding that Grady and Ewing spent about a year filming her — including a visit to the Kids On Fire summer camp in Devil’s Lake, ND — explaining that political side of the equation had only come up toward the end of shooting.

"When we took out [an] image of Bush, it turned political, but to us, it’s not political – it’s Biblical," she said.

"All you have to do is mention words like abortion, homosexuality and President Bush to [garner] strong feelings from people," said Fischer who maintained that using images of the U.S. President and the flags of the U.S. and Israel were not meant to be overtly political. "We are commanded to pray for our leaders and we’re commanded [by the Bible] to pray for Israel. So it was a surprise to me because we don’t think of this as political. But from a secular point-of-view, I can see how it’s viewed politically."

So, again, a lot of this is misunderstood by people who don’t really understand the Bible, don’t really understand the faith, or Christianity in general. But what else did Fischer do? What about prosletyzing the heathen filmmakers?

As for the filmmakers themselves, Fischer said she felt a duty to shield Grady and Ewing from her fellow Evangelicals who might have been tempted to witness to them during the making of the movie. She said that fellow believers had come to her privately to inquire about the filmmaker’s own religious beliefs, but while Fischer and the filmmakers discussed religion, she added, "There wasn’t a conscious effort to make them feel uncomfortable. It wasn’t why they were here. I know that Evangelicals can do that, but I didn’t [want them to feel uncomfortable]."

After shooting wrapped, Fischer said that Grady and Ewing shared their beliefs with her, and any disagreements that might exist have not compromised the film. "Rachel and Heidi have said their personal beliefs have nothing to do with the film. I think they did an extremely good job in not letting their personal beliefs interfere with the making of this film."

Wow, isn’t that a little different than the Bible-beating bereter she’s been made out to be? Maybe there’s more to this story. Anyway, on to Nick’s responses:

Are these kids going to be well-adjusted? Are they going to learn at some point that human societies are full of vested interests and that skepticism is healthy? They’re taught that science knows nothing even as they’re driven to camp in cars that science wrought. We can’t point a finger in our homes without touching on the fruits of science. What did religion ever bring us that we didn’t have already? Christinsanity certainly takes credit for a lot of things… all of which existed long before the "christ" in the name did.

First of all, as to your question of what Religion brought us, a brief list includes things like the Sanctity of Human Life, unknown in the pagan world (BC), works of mercy and compassion. (Who do you think founded the Red Cross? Scientologists?) Great literature, and yes, even science. Pasteur, Newton, and dozes of others were also Christians.  It is Christian Missionaries who set most of world’s languages to writing. The progress of human civilization, true progress is tied to the history of Christianity.

If you’d want to live in the pre-Christian era, so be it, but its world full of darkness, human sacrifice and the status of women as next to nothing. Lets not kid ourselves.

Second point (and this goes back to an article that I posted that Nick responded to, Nick has one standard for humanism and one standard for Christianity.

I think this is completely appropriate and long overdue. PG, like it or not, stands for PARENTAL GUIDANCE. It’s hard to imagine an area that merits more guidance than in the brainwashing in which religions engage. This is a threat to evangelicals exactly because what they most want and need is direct and unrestricted access to young impressionable minds in an environment where their non-Christian parents have no ability to intervene. 

Yet, numerous movies push evolution, push eco-worship, and humanism and are not sujected to such a rating. Why not? Well, you see, its okay to use movies to propogandize Christian children, but its not okay to have movies that teach Christian values. How dare we? And we’re going to slap a PG-rating, because Hollywood thinks Christianity is dangerous. The villfied and hated Becky Fischer said this:

"As I understood, your question to me was ‘Do you feel it’s right for the fundamentalists to indoctrinate their children with their own beliefs?’ I guess fundamentally, yes I do, because every other religion is indoctrinating their kids. I would like to see more churches indoctrinating," she says.

Bingo. Every religion and most every irreligious person (excluding Michael to some degree) indoctrinates their children. Nick, please don’t tell me you won’t. I’m going to make an assumption and I think I’m almost certainly right. If your child comes home with a religious tract, you’re not going to tell him to think critically about it, you’re going to tell its bunk and trash and blaspheme Christ as you’ve done on this forum. Through this and through that Christ still loves you.

But, if they learn from someone to pray, you mock them as you mock people who pray here. Are you really going to take the stand that, "I don’t give a rip." and let your kids become whatever religion they want and be influenced by whoever wants to influence them.

You don’t seem like the type for that. My father went a few services to the Salvation Army. He tried praying at his home until his father mocked out of it. I fully expect they’ll be some propogandizing going around your house, Nick, but that’s different right?

In Nick’s world, what’s good for the goose isn’t good for the gander. Its a problem when parents choose to send their kids to a church camp to instill their values, but is it a problem when Jay Bennish, a public school teacher stands up in a classroom to teach the Hate America view of foreign policy? Is it problem when college professors cease their classrooms as a government-subsidized pulpits for liberalism? No, I don’t hear the outcries.

I hear the outcry now when a private voluntary camp is held teaching children the values their parents want them to learn and when a movie is played that you can choose to see or not.

Nick wants the religious to be second class to the secular. He wants it ghetoized, He wants it contained far away for him. Like anyone running from God, he’s trying to hide. Well, Nick, we’re not going away and we’re not hiding as much as you may like us too. The Church will stand and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.

It stands today against persecution from Communists, Islamists, and Buddhists. It stands today despite threats of violence and is growing and breaking out across the Globe. The Gospel is spreading like a wild fire across Asia and Africa. I believe it can change and penetrate our hearts hear, though we make them as hard as flint.

For 2000 years, we haven’t shut up and we’re not going to. As much as you delude yourself, its not going to happen.

Secular people don’t raise their kids to die for anything. Our way is better.

Thankfully, you weren’t raising the generations who died for our country, because then we’d be in a mess. Apparently, you strongly support the idea of there being no atheists in foxholes.

I’m glad as well, you would teach your children that the people who died for Civil Rights in the 1960s and people who perish for human rights today are utter fools as you teach your children that absolutely nothing is worth giving your life for. I’m sure the world will be better for men who know that saving their own skin is the most important ambition in life and that nothing is worth sacrificing that for. Not family, not country, not anything.

The biggest misnomer here is that dying for Christianity involves killing someone else. That’s simply not the case. Every year in every Corner of the globe, Christians are sent as sheep to the slaughter. Massacred by the hundreds by Muslims, imprisoned by Communists, never lifting a sword in violence. There’s something in Christ that’s worth dying for, because He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. There is none other and if We must die for that, than we must die.

Most secularists do teach their children to die, or to risk death. You see, there is no 100% safe sex other than abstinence. While some Christians have perished on the mission field, many more children of secular parents or Christian parents who listened to secular counsel have died as a result of AIDS, as a result of STDs. They’ve lived to themselves and they’ve died, leaving nothing behind. You teach your children to die deaths that are meaningless and shallow.

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