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	<title>Comments on: Great Case</title>
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	<description>Fighting a never ending battle...</description>
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		<title>By: Adam Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/comment-page-1/#comment-43858</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 02:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/#comment-43858</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; Even if everyone participates, though, parties still serve a purpose. They associate candidates with platforms (though that association gets weaker every election cycle). Parties would still be free to associate in the sense that they would be free to accept or reject candidates.&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
No, they would not be free. You&#039;re saying that parties should be enslaved to the interests of everybody else. Parties would effectively play no role in the political process.
&lt;p&gt;
&lt;i&gt; I disagree. I think the problem is due to a self-fulfilling prophesy. If you treat someone as marginal, you will marginalize them, and they will end up marginal. In addition to better ballot access, minor parties need media access. For instance, the Corporation for Presidential Debates was formed and is run by people with connections in the major parties. It’s not remotely independent or unbiased. Consequently, minor candidates get excluded from debates.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m all for inclusion of candidates in debates, however I&#039;ve seen many elections (thought not Presidential ones) where Independent, Libertarian, Green, Etc. candidates get included in debates and given equal access to questions. They still lose and by a large margin. This suggests to me that the people who run and become involved in these 3rd party efforts are actually not very good at politics. Or you might say they are, &quot;marginal people.&quot; with limited bases of support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> Even if everyone participates, though, parties still serve a purpose. They associate candidates with platforms (though that association gets weaker every election cycle). Parties would still be free to associate in the sense that they would be free to accept or reject candidates.</i></p>
<p>
No, they would not be free. You&#8217;re saying that parties should be enslaved to the interests of everybody else. Parties would effectively play no role in the political process.
</p>
<p>
<i> I disagree. I think the problem is due to a self-fulfilling prophesy. If you treat someone as marginal, you will marginalize them, and they will end up marginal. In addition to better ballot access, minor parties need media access. For instance, the Corporation for Presidential Debates was formed and is run by people with connections in the major parties. It’s not remotely independent or unbiased. Consequently, minor candidates get excluded from debates.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for inclusion of candidates in debates, however I&#8217;ve seen many elections (thought not Presidential ones) where Independent, Libertarian, Green, Etc. candidates get included in debates and given equal access to questions. They still lose and by a large margin. This suggests to me that the people who run and become involved in these 3rd party efforts are actually not very good at politics. Or you might say they are, &#8220;marginal people.&#8221; with limited bases of support.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric W</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/comment-page-1/#comment-43783</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/#comment-43783</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;But you’re basically arguing for the abolition of all political parties at this point if everybody can participate than it’s stupid to even have them.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, while I recognize the natural instinct to form collectives, I wouldn&#039;t mind seeing the demise of party politics. Even if everyone participates, though, parties still serve a purpose. They associate candidates with platforms (though that association gets weaker every election cycle). Parties would still be free to associate in the sense that they would be free to accept or reject candidates.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;The Major Parties control things because no one has come up with a minor party that enough people will support.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I disagree. I think the problem is due to a self-fulfilling prophesy. If you treat someone as marginal, you will marginalize them, and they will end up marginal. In addition to better ballot access, minor parties need media access. For instance, the Corporation for Presidential Debates was formed and is run by people with connections in the major parties. It&#039;s not remotely independent or unbiased. Consequently, minor candidates get excluded from debates.

Another problem is the winner-take-all voting system we have. We need something better, like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rangevoting.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;range voting&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;The Libertarian Party is on the ballot in most places and in Idaho, it’s as easy to file as a Libertarian or Constitution Party Candidate as it as a Republican.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Good for Idaho. Would that more states followed suit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;But you’re basically arguing for the abolition of all political parties at this point if everybody can participate than it’s stupid to even have them.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, while I recognize the natural instinct to form collectives, I wouldn&#8217;t mind seeing the demise of party politics. Even if everyone participates, though, parties still serve a purpose. They associate candidates with platforms (though that association gets weaker every election cycle). Parties would still be free to associate in the sense that they would be free to accept or reject candidates.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;The Major Parties control things because no one has come up with a minor party that enough people will support.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I disagree. I think the problem is due to a self-fulfilling prophesy. If you treat someone as marginal, you will marginalize them, and they will end up marginal. In addition to better ballot access, minor parties need media access. For instance, the Corporation for Presidential Debates was formed and is run by people with connections in the major parties. It&#8217;s not remotely independent or unbiased. Consequently, minor candidates get excluded from debates.</p>
<p>Another problem is the winner-take-all voting system we have. We need something better, like <a href="http://www.rangevoting.org" rel="nofollow">range voting</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;The Libertarian Party is on the ballot in most places and in Idaho, it’s as easy to file as a Libertarian or Constitution Party Candidate as it as a Republican.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Good for Idaho. Would that more states followed suit.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/comment-page-1/#comment-43782</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/#comment-43782</guid>
		<description>But you&#039;re basically arguing for the abolition of all political parties at this point if everybody can participate than it&#039;s stupid to even have them. 

The Major Parties control things because no one has come up with a minor party that enough people will support. The Libertarian Party is on the ballot in most places and in Idaho, it&#039;s as easy to file as a Libertarian or Constitution Party Candidate as it as a Republican.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But you&#8217;re basically arguing for the abolition of all political parties at this point if everybody can participate than it&#8217;s stupid to even have them. </p>
<p>The Major Parties control things because no one has come up with a minor party that enough people will support. The Libertarian Party is on the ballot in most places and in Idaho, it&#8217;s as easy to file as a Libertarian or Constitution Party Candidate as it as a Republican.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric W</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/comment-page-1/#comment-43713</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/#comment-43713</guid>
		<description>I understand where you&#039;re coming from regarding freedom of association. The problem is that we&#039;re not talking about a neighborhood club or a charitable organization. Parties control politics in this country. I would argue that they are not entirely private associations. Every voter, party member or not, has a vested interest in selecting presidential candidates. Requiring party registration strikes me as being as crooked as requiring union membership (i.e., closed shops). Maybe we need to prosecute the Democratic and Republican parties under RICO laws. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand where you&#8217;re coming from regarding freedom of association. The problem is that we&#8217;re not talking about a neighborhood club or a charitable organization. Parties control politics in this country. I would argue that they are not entirely private associations. Every voter, party member or not, has a vested interest in selecting presidential candidates. Requiring party registration strikes me as being as crooked as requiring union membership (i.e., closed shops). Maybe we need to prosecute the Democratic and Republican parties under RICO laws. <img src='http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Adam Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/comment-page-1/#comment-43151</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 23:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/#comment-43151</guid>
		<description>Actually, what you&#039;re proposing is the infringement of the right to freedom of association. The parties are a group of people that pass a platform laying out their beliefs. You can choose to join it or not. If you don&#039;t like the major parties, you can join a third party, or you can stay out. To Say you should be able to influence the choice of a party while disdaining it is absurd and it&#039;s really an abuse of process.

What you&#039;re actually advocating is the stealth abolition of political parties. If you want to abolish political parties, fine, push for that. Nebraksa elects its entire State legislature on a non-partisan basis, many cities do the same with mayor and city council candidates. However, as long as we have primaries and parties they ought to eb respected by  the right of free association.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, what you&#8217;re proposing is the infringement of the right to freedom of association. The parties are a group of people that pass a platform laying out their beliefs. You can choose to join it or not. If you don&#8217;t like the major parties, you can join a third party, or you can stay out. To Say you should be able to influence the choice of a party while disdaining it is absurd and it&#8217;s really an abuse of process.</p>
<p>What you&#8217;re actually advocating is the stealth abolition of political parties. If you want to abolish political parties, fine, push for that. Nebraksa elects its entire State legislature on a non-partisan basis, many cities do the same with mayor and city council candidates. However, as long as we have primaries and parties they ought to eb respected by  the right of free association.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric W</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/comment-page-1/#comment-43129</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/#comment-43129</guid>
		<description>The problem with closed primaries is that they encourage collectivism over individual conscientious action. That is, elections become a matter of choosing the who &quot;best&quot; represents a collective&#039;s stated ideals, rather than who is best for the elected position. Party membership ends up trumping American citizenship and individual conscience.

I don&#039;t expect the GOP or DNC to prop anyone up. Who suggested that? My political stances are not represented well by either powerhouse party. Should I be implicitly disenfranchised?

Easing ballot access is not enough. Debate access must be eased, and debates must be arranged by independent entities (like the League of Women Voters). The current CPD is essentially run by the GOP and DNC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with closed primaries is that they encourage collectivism over individual conscientious action. That is, elections become a matter of choosing the who &#8220;best&#8221; represents a collective&#8217;s stated ideals, rather than who is best for the elected position. Party membership ends up trumping American citizenship and individual conscience.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t expect the GOP or DNC to prop anyone up. Who suggested that? My political stances are not represented well by either powerhouse party. Should I be implicitly disenfranchised?</p>
<p>Easing ballot access is not enough. Debate access must be eased, and debates must be arranged by independent entities (like the League of Women Voters). The current CPD is essentially run by the GOP and DNC.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/comment-page-1/#comment-43097</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/#comment-43097</guid>
		<description>I could settle for a modified open, but would prefer closed. Whatever you think of the two parties, it&#039;s not their job to build up their competitors. I support easing ballot access laws to allow more parties on and fusion. However, it is not the job of the GOP to prop Independents or anyone else. Indeed, open primaries could serve to dilute possible challengers as some Independents who might consider a third party settle for a role in infludencing the nominees of the major party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could settle for a modified open, but would prefer closed. Whatever you think of the two parties, it&#8217;s not their job to build up their competitors. I support easing ballot access laws to allow more parties on and fusion. However, it is not the job of the GOP to prop Independents or anyone else. Indeed, open primaries could serve to dilute possible challengers as some Independents who might consider a third party settle for a role in infludencing the nominees of the major party.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric W</title>
		<link>http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/comment-page-1/#comment-43074</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamsweb.us/blog/great-case/#comment-43074</guid>
		<description>How would you feel about semi-open primaries, in which independents can vote in any party&#039;s primary? I think the closed system is hostile to parties outside the reigning duopoly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How would you feel about semi-open primaries, in which independents can vote in any party&#8217;s primary? I think the closed system is hostile to parties outside the reigning duopoly.</p>
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