Out of the Mouths of Trolls
Posted by Adam Graham in : PoliticsA liberal commenter over at Trish and Halli unintentionally made the Conservative case about hate crimes with his reaction to a bill being shelved that would have made hate crimes apply to the nebulous category of “sexual orientation”:
That’s a relief. I can keep hating. . . in a Christian sort of way.
But I thought the bill wasn’t about thought control. If it was about stopping actual violent actions against homosexuals, then the more appropriate sarcastic response would be, ” That’s a relief. I can attack a homosexual with a baseball bat.”
Of course, the point is that he COULDN’T attack a homosexual with a baseball bat. That’s already illegal. What he and every other American CAN do is disagree with their lifestyle, which in the twisted leftist world has become the equivalent of hate, that must be silenced by statute.
Comment by Rod
I love how you jump to assumptions. I disagree with you on these issues and you automatically distance me as a human by using terms like “Troll” and “Liberal” to dehumanize me i your mind. I am neither a Troll (I’m way too tall) nor a Liberal (I don’t limit my thinking by alligning with a narrow group like Consevatisism or Liberalism). Also, Adam, let’s be honest, you more than “disagree” with homosexuals. You want to say the “H” word, so be honest and say it.
Hate crimes are message crimes. They are different from other crimes in that the offender is sending a message to members of a certain group that they are unwelcome. So it is more than just one crime. To use your example, beating a man with a bat is already against the law the offernder should be punished for that; the “Hate Crime” part of the action is directed at others. It is a separate crime that should be addressed separately from the assault and punishable. It’s not a difficult concept if you can step out of your own agenda of hatred to see and understand it.
Comment by Andrea Graham
hate:
1. to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest:
disagree:
1. to fail to agree; differ
2. to differ in opinion; dissent
and for good measure:
disapprove:
1. to think (something) wrong or reprehensible; censure or condemn in opinion.
2. to withhold approval from; decline to sanction: The Senate disapproved the nominations.
–verb (used without object)
3. to have an unfavorable opinion; express disapproval (usually fol. by of).
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1).
I don’t see where either of these two include in their definitions the definition of hate. Therefore, I would think it possible to consider homosexuality morally wrong without feeling ill will, aversion, or outright animosity for homosexuals. It is then fallacious and disingenuous to characterize any and all dissent/ disapproval of a behavior/ideology as hatred for the person.
Where hate is a genuine problem–Fred Phelps anyone?–education and peer accountability is a far better way to combat that.
Comment by Rod
That’s exactly what I said. Use the word you really feel not “disagree.”
Comment by Adam Graham
Agreed. Prosecuting, just turns people into martyrs.
Comment by Adam Graham
First of all, A troll is someone who tries to stir up controversy on an Internet blog or forum.
Secondly, don’t put words in my mouth. I don’t hate anyone. As the saying goes, “Equal rights for all, special privileges for none.”
And what you want to do is punish thought not actions.
Comment by Rod
If, as in your scenario, the offender beats the gay man (notice I use the word man, not guy; word choice reveals much) because he is gay, the thoughts are connected with the action, the two cannot be separated, and the man beaten is not the only victim. If a man is beaten because the offender wanted money, and the victim had no money, the offender is still prosecuted for assult and robbery. He didn’t actually rob the man, but he had the thought to rob him–same thing. When the less-than-human shot up a synagogue while spewing anti-Semitic statements in Atlanta not long ago, should he only have been prosecuted for discharging a weapon in city limits? Honestly, is that his only crime, or is there also the crime of terrorizing the Jewish population of that city?
You don’t hate anyone? Not even the people who flew planes into buildings? I hate them. I didn’t put words into your mouth. It’s pretty clear how you feel about homosexuals. I’m just encouraging you to come to terms with your feelings.
I know what a Troll is. A name is a name. By calling someone a Troll, or any other label you have pigeon-holed them into something you can dismiss. I’m not saying I’m above it, but I try to avoid it. Do you want differing opinions, or do you only want comments from people who have the same thoughts as you?